After reading these two chapters read the poem titled "The Man He Killed" found here: http://www.illyria.com/hardyman.html - compare O'Brien's story with Hardy's poem. Are they both "true war stories"?
Also read "Ambush". After reading both stories explain the feelings of guilt that O'Brien is experiencing.
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20 comments:
Well they are both stories about killing a foe. One by a grenade and the other by shooting them. I would say that they are because it made them both come to terms with death because of their experience.
Cory C.
Hardy's poem talked about who the person was before they died which exsactly what the author was saying in anbush. neither one of them realy knew the peolple they kill but they thought they owed it to the person to give them a good memory.
to me it is not just the fact that they are tromaticed but more that they know that the people whom they killed were people too. They showed the reader that they did not want to be there as much as they disn't.
Mandy Hughes
I think that the poem does compare with O'Brien's story. Both talk about killing and shooting another person dead. O'Brien talks about a man he saw in the fog, then killed with a grenade shortly after. The poem talks about a person who killed an enemy, or foe, as well.
Brad C.
Both of them are war stories because they both deal with the life of a solider. They both deal with killing their enimeis, even though they don't know them....just shooting them down just because they are your enemey.
Jennifer D
both "The Man I Killed" and the poem talk about the war and how you kill someone in the spur of the moment even if your not sure if they are the enemy or not. -Chris Austin
The poem and the short story are very similar because they are both trying to explain the feelings they had about the person they killed. They did not dislike the person nor did they know them. All they knew was they were their enemy and they either had to kill them or be killed. Its simply their job. And if they would have met under different circumstances they may have been friends. Its hard for a soldier to explain killing a person they dont even know, they can not think about that person being an decent guy or even about that person having a family. All they can think is kill or be killed. They are the enemy and it is their job.
O'brien is feeling guilt because his nine year old little girl is asking him if he killed anyone. He does not want to try to explain it to her because "war stories" are not something that is easily understood by adult civilians let alone a child. He knows the confusion and crazy thoughts that went through his head then and the thoughts that still pass now and he did not want his little girl trying to cope with feelings like that as well.
~Malori
Both "The Man He Killed" and O'Brien's story talk of how if they would have met the person they killed somewhere else, they could have become friends. Both stories are "true war stories" because they tell of experiences of the war, and how it really has no moral to it.
O'Brien has lots of guilt inside of him at this point. He feels guilty because he thinks about how the man he killed could have been just a regular person, that studies mathematics, and could have been attending a university; and he took all of that away from him. He feels guilty because he took away a man's whole life.
Both the poem and the book talk about a man that they had to kill. They knew that they had to either kill or be killed. They are both dealing with it in a way by creating a backround for them. They know that before the war the one they killed had a life just like they did. By creating a backround they are coping with the fact that they have to kill people even when they don't really want to.
Even though they could be war stories they may not be. Because they could have imagined that as a metaphor towards the war. The poem explains the situation in vietnam not his story. THe everyday life in Vietnam was to kill somebeody who was trying to kill you too.
Yes i agree with Malori because he does'nt want to exploit that child to the war that he has to deal with on a regular basis. He kills people to some people for no reason and others to help out less fortunate contries than us.
--Tim
Both the book and the poem talk about being forced to kill someone in war. However in the poem you can't tell how the author feels about killing unlike in "The Man I killed. In the book it traumotized the soldier he couldn't forget the man's face the memory stayed with him forever. In the poem he just talks about shooting an enemy and doesnt' really talk about how it affected him.
Amanda
There are many simularites between this poem and the chapter. Both of them involve the confused state of killing someone and how it fells and what is running through the persons mind when getting ready to kill someone for a purpose not really understood. Kathleen had asked her father have you ever killed anyone in a war? It was a difficult moment he expressed but he did what he thought was right for telling a nine year old girl which was no.
Both stories are about not knowing your enemy but kind of making up a story of their life. O'Brien talks about the kid as if he knew him and the poem talks about meeting that person in a bar.
Tyler
Both are talking about killing someone but I don't think that the Hardy poem was a true war story because of how it was written and how it was described. It was more of an art form that a war story. It had to much poetic feel to it for it to be a true war story, unlike O'Brien who uses more description and doesn't try to gloss it over.
-Ariel :)
Both of these stories could be true war stories. both are talking about war and both involve the person telling it. There are some situations in which the teller tries to make themself look good.
He is felling guilt that he might of killed an innocent man that never wanted to participate in the war. The man could of been forced to fight it because of the government or peer pressure. If he would of gotten to know the soldier he might not of killed him and the quilt might not be there.
Jared B.
I think in a way they are true war stories. The incident they talk about may not have been what they had gone through but they had gone through stuff like that. They have killed people they knew nothing about.
Jessica
In Hardy's poem, he seems to have a patriotic pride regarding the death of his enemy. "I shot him dead because, Because he was my foe." Also, he makes no reference to the corpse of his enemy. O'Brien is shamed by his killing, even when Kiowa tries to make him feel better. "None of it mattered.The words seemed far too complicated." (P. 134). Also, he vividly describes the corpse.
Personally i think that the two stories in the novel are true war stories. Also, in the poem their are also similarties.In the poem it states, " He'd thought he'd list perhaps, off-hand like-just as I, was out to work- Had solo his traps. No other reason why?" This relates to the true war story theme because every soldier has to go threw this shooting another enemy that they dont not know.
Chris Booth
Both stories deal with unecessary killings, which is what some war stories are about, killing people that didn't need to be killed. This makes it a "true war story". O'Brien is experiencing an immense amount of guilt because of the person he killed and the thought of their death as unecessary. First he kills a little boy, who didn't have to die in the first place, and then a soldier who would have not spotted the platoon but died anyway. O'Brien thinks about this all the time and how they could have still lived.
Matt G
The book and the poem has the same message of we could have been friends if we had met of different terms. The only difference is the shot at each other and the man in the book did not have a chance.
Steven W Pollard
Yes, they are, they don't hide facts about the war or anything. As Tim O'Brien says " A true war story is never moral."
Kat
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