What is the role of shame in the lives of these soldiers? Does it drive them to acts of heroism, or stupidity? Or both? What is the relationship between shame and courage?
Use specific examples
If someone takes your answer - elaborate. You can pull examples from other chapters as well.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
20 comments:
I would say stupidity and insanity because of that guy who broke his own nose to try and get even with a guy who he thought would get him in his sleep or something.
Cory C.
Shame can drive anyone to do something stupid, but the thing is is that we may not realize what we're doing is stupid. I think the soldiers think they are doing something heroic but when someone from an outside stand point sees what they're doing they can only think "how stupid." For example in chapter 6 the pact between two of soldiers in which if one is put in a wheelchair the other soldier will kill them when they could still have so much to live for. It's not that they are intentionally trying to do stupid things because in their head everything is heroic in a war.
-Ariel :)
Shame plays a very big role in the lives of these specific soldiers. After Jensen broke Strunk's nose he was very paranoid, and ashamed of what he did. This led him to take his gun and break his own nose in order to be even with Strunk. When you have shame, you do things out of feelings of guilt or embarrassment. Courage on the other hand can lead to acts that are noble.
Shame is a large part of all soldiers lives. I think that they try to hide it and in result to hiding it instead of fixing or copeing with it, insanity and stupidity arise. In this chapter the two soldiers fought over something ignorant and then the one broke his own nose just to call it even. I really am absolutely positive that could have been fixed or called even in any other way, but because it was something that was eating at him, he handled it in a ignorant manner. Also they became "friends" again and made a pact that if they were ever hurt they would find a way to end it for the other one and when one got hurt he was ashamed of the pact he made and begged him not to kill him. The desert makes you do crazy things.
~Malori~
I think that is was shameful that Jensen was relieved when Strunk died. Shame can lead to either heroism or stupidity but in this case it lead to stupidity. Shame can give you courage to do something you wouldn't normally do. For instance, one might be ashamed to not help a friend, so they would help them even if what the friend was asking for was too much.
i think it was insanity that caused the guy to brake his own nose. They are paranoid just because of the war and then because of revenge, which caused him to go insane.
jessica
The soliders of vietnman don't have that much shame all together because they're surrounded by blood and gore they see things other people don't see.
So I would think that their shame level is pretty low but it can drive them to do crazy things when they do feel shame, like breaking your own nose just to become even with some you fought.
I Think the soliders do believe they are heroic, there fight a war that's not our own to help out sout vietnam....but their actions arn't very heroic.
Shame can sometimes lead soldiers to acts of stupidity. I think this happens more so than acts of heroism. Their morale may be so low at times, they feel that something drastic and ridiculously stupid is needed, when in reality it isn't. They do not think the process through completely, and end up causing more harm than good.
Courage is different from shame. Courage is doing something heroic that others would simply not do. Sometimes this may be stupid, much like things done when you're shameful, but the rewards are usually great.
Brad C
I think that shame in this chapter of the book more so drives people to do something stupid. Like how Jensen broke is own nose because he was ashamed of what he did to someone else. It drove he more to insanity than to act like a hero.
-Sam
Okay I pulled mine from another chapter.
The narrator, Tim felt shameful about his desire, and failing to go to cananda.
His shame made him feel sad. "For more than twenty years I've had to live with it, feeling the shame, trying to push it away, and so with this act of rememberance, by putting the facts down on paper, I'm hoping to relieve at least some the pressure on my dreams." (P. 39). His shame eventually causes him to be brave and write about it.
Shame is carried by many, yet it is courage that causes us to come to terms with our shame.
I think the main thing would have to be courage, because these men are going to fight a war for their country. These soldiers are risking their lives while other are sitting at home living their daily lives, not wanting to help with the war. Most of you guys think that everything these soldiers do is a shame but what are you guys doing to support the war today? The men over seas are just like the men in the book they have courage to fight a war that they might not even want to be a part of.
Jared
I think Jared makes a good point here. What do you guys think?
--Wiegers
Shame to these soldiers is something they dont want to have to deal with in the after life. In the chapter Strunk gets his life taken away by a mortar round and he tells Jensen that he doesnt want to get shot so apparently his shame got to the best of him.
Shame will make you do anything to get rid of it. But the truth is you will always have shame at some point in your life it is enevitable. Shame is bothing like courage because if yu have courage then you can die and have no problems facing that fact but if u have shame to deal with then it will be very difficult.
Shame plays a big part in the soldiers lives like it does in everyone elses. We all act the way we do because of the things we have been through for example when one of the soldiers feels so guilty for breaking a guys nose he ends up breaking his own. I would have to shame drives these soldiers to more acts stupidity but they are under a lot of pressure. Shame is the guilt you feel after doing something while courage is having the strenght to do something. Courage can often lead to shame
On thing in this chapter that I found shameful was when the two men made a pact to where if on person got so messed up they would kill the other. This decision brought about a change when one of the men got injured and he told his buddy not to kill him. To me this is an act of heroism because he wanted to live out his life facing the facts of his injury
Stupidity and heroism can be closely related depending on the situation. Running into a burning building, stupid on your part but risking your life to save the person in the building, that's heroism. -Chris Austin
In my opinion when people are in war they feel very shamful, maybe because of the things they had done while fighting in the war.
The men in this book feel the presure and shame of killing innocent people out of something they could feel strongly against.Stupidity and insanity also plays a big role in feeling shame. I think the feeling of doing so many shamful things makes the person almost want to continue because the have given up.
The bell just rung i need to continue from this...
chelsea pinkerman
The solders that are in things We Carry show courage to hied what they are truly feeling. Even thow all of the men were very corages for going into the war. Cory said the the men are stupid an in sane, i kinda agree breaking ur node is nuts. But the fact is it is pretty courages to emberss ur self in front of men u r stuck with.
Mandy
I believe that it is stupidity and shame. The stupidity is when Jensen and Strunk get in a fight over Strunk stealing Jensen's jackknife. Jensen beats Strunk up really bad and feels that Strunk is going to get back at him. He feels like he if fighting the VC and his own team. The shame is that he feels so bad about beating him up he takes his pistol and breaks his own nose with it to make things even.
Tyler
I would have to say that the war drives the soldiers to shame, which leads them to do stupid things that they are not accustomed to doing. Therefore, which relates to the smuggling of heroine in their suite cases, when coming back to the states. Also, O'Briens states, " If you aren't fighting in a war that you are interseted in or have the desire to fight in.
Chris Booth
I think that the soldiers are shamed into courage. They have no chose but to fight for there country so anything but doing that would be shameful for them and there family so I do think that shame forces people to act.
Steven W Pollard
Post a Comment